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Explosive New RCMP Transcript Renews Spotlight on Trudeau, Butts, Telford—Powers Behind Mark Carney’s Leadership Bid

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11 minute read

Sam Cooper

Wilson-Raybould asked by RCMP: ‘Did you advise Mr. BUTTS at one point that all this interference could amount at one point to an unlawful act?”

Despite controversial redactions that, according to a transparency advocate, may be inappropriately shielding Justin Trudeau’s inner circle from obstruction of justice accusations, newly released Royal Canadian Mounted Police transcripts provide unprecedented insight into the intense pressure campaign aimed at Jody Wilson-Raybould’s office to obstruct the prosecution of a major Quebec corporation closely tied to Trudeau’s government, his Montreal riding, and the Liberal Party’s re-election hopes.

These newly revealed RCMP interview records, though more than four years old, cast a fresh spotlight on Trudeau’s senior aides—several of whom, including Trudeau’s close friend Gerald Butts, have reportedly thrown their weight behind Mark Carney, the Liberal leadership frontrunner who appears poised to succeed Trudeau.

In a stunning revelation, RCMP records indicate that Wilson-Raybould warned Trudeau’s then-Principal Secretary, Gerald Butts, about her concerns regarding the unlawful nature of the pressure campaign.

 

As previously reported by The Bureau, Duff Conacher, co-founder of Democracy Watch—which obtained the records—commented:

“The Prime Minister and Cabinet officials pressuring the Attorney General to obstruct a prosecution is a situation that has not been publicly revealed before. Given that no past court ruling makes it clear the RCMP could not win a prosecution, a fully independent special prosecutor should have been appointed to pursue a search warrant for secret Cabinet communications.”

Documents obtained through access-to-information requests from Democracy Watch detail how Jessica Prince, Chief of Staff to then-Attorney General Wilson-Raybould, faced repeated, coordinated, and escalating demands from senior Trudeau officials to persuade Wilson-Raybould to override her prosecutors’ decision and cut SNC-Lavalin a deal.

What began as a single call from Finance Minister Bill Morneau’s office in August 2018 spiraled into months of pressure, involving some of the most powerful figures in Trudeau’s inner circle, including:

  • Ben Chin, Chief of Staff to Finance Minister Bill Morneau
  • Elder Marques & Mathieu Bouchard, Senior Advisors in the Prime Minister’s Office
  • Gerald Butts, Trudeau’s Principal Secretary
  • Katie Telford, Trudeau’s Chief of Staff
  • Michael Wernick, Clerk of the Privy Council

SNC-Lavalin, one of Quebec’s largest engineering and construction firms, was charged in 2015 with fraud and corruption over alleged bribes to Libyan officials. In 2018, the Director of Public Prosecutions refused to offer SNC-Lavalin a Deferred Prosecution Agreement, prompting intense lobbying efforts by senior Trudeau officials.

Prince was first approached by Ben Chin in mid-August 2018.

“The case wasn’t on my radar at all,” Prince told an RCMP investigator. “The Public Prosecution Service is independent and handles tons of cases. We weren’t on top of all of them because the Department of Justice has about 45,000 pieces of litigation of its own. This was not high on my list of priorities.”

She recalled the abruptness of Chin’s outreach.

“He had clearly been speaking—I don’t know to whom—but to somebody at SNC-Lavalin, presumably someone quite high up, and was asking questions about the status of their prosecution.”

Prince described Chin as relentless, continuing to press her even as she tried to deflect.

“Francois was acting as Chief of Staff in my absence, so whenever people were trying to get a hold of me, I’d push them off to Francois. But Ben wouldn’t take no for an answer. He was like, ‘No, I really need to speak to you; I can’t speak to Francois.’”

Despite Prince’s repeated explanations about prosecutorial independence, Chin kept pushing. At one point, he insisted there had to be “a middle ground”—a compromise that would spare SNC-Lavalin from a criminal conviction.

Prince stood firm:

“There is no middle ground on prosecutorial independence, Ben. Like, you can’t. There’s not. It’s independent, you can’t, you can’t touch it.”

The next day, Bill Morneau’s office followed up, this time through Deputy Chief of Staff Justin To, whom Prince described as “Ben’s number two” and a former Prime Minister’s Office staffer.

One of the most explosive allegations from Jessica Prince’s RCMP interview involves her accusations of interference to Mathieu Bouchard, a Senior Advisor in the Prime Minister’s Office.

In October 2018, Prince received a call from Bouchard regarding a note prepared by the Deputy Attorney General. The note examined the relationship between the Attorney General and the Public Prosecution Service of Canada and included a controversial option: obtaining an external legal opinion on whether the Director of Public Prosecutions’ decision to deny SNC-Lavalin a Deferred Prosecution Agreement was appropriate.

Prince described Bouchard as persistent, pressing for ways to circumvent the Director of Public Prosecutions’ decision.

During the call, Prince accused Bouchard of interference:

“Look, Mathieu, this is… this is interference, right? Like this is, uh, to say we’re getting an external legal opinion, like, to what end, right? Like, if we think that the Director is exercising her discretion appropriately, why are we getting an external legal opinion, right?”

She pushed back on the implications of his request. Bouchard responded by tying the decision to the political stakes in Quebec, warning that SNC-Lavalin could pull its headquarters from the province.

“He said, ‘You know, Jess, we could have the best policy in the world, but if we… we have to get re-elected, right?’”

According to Prince, the intensity of pressure culminated in a meeting with Katie Telford and Gerry Butts on December 17, 2018. Prince emphasized how extraordinary the meeting was, saying, ‘It was incredibly rare that I would even have a phone call with Gerry or Katie, let alone be summoned to their office. So, I knew it wasn’t good.’ She noted how ‘the Chief of Staff of the Prime Minister is like, effectively the boss to all the chiefs of staff of the ministers’ offices.’

    Katie Telford

After the meeting, Prince took detailed handwritten notes and sent a text to the Minister, Jody Wilson-Raybould, informing her of everything that had happened.

In her own subsequent interview with RCMP, according to the records, Wilson-Raybould was asked: “We’re in December now, so there’s quite a bit of meetings that took place before that. Did you advise Mr. Butts at one point that all this interference could amount at one point to an unlawful act?”

“I met Gerry at the Chateau,” the former Attorney General answered, “[and] we talk about a bunch of things, and there was a list of things that I wanted to bring up at the end which, is what I did and reflecting to him the nature of the number of discussions that I’ve had and it’s simply inappropriate.”

Meanwhile, the documents say around the time of that meeting, Prince learned that Michael Wernick, the Clerk of the Privy Council, was also involved in the pressure campaign. According to Prince, Wernick spoke to Wilson-Raybould and made it clear that the Prime Minister was growing increasingly agitated over her refusal to intervene. Prince recounted that Wernick said, ‘I don’t want the Attorney General and the Prime Minister to be at loggerheads on this… he’s in a real mood.’

The rest of Prince’s interview reads like the dénouement of a play, as she describes both herself and the Attorney General refusing to be shuffled to other posts, with both believing their functions had been interfered with from the highest levels, to benefit Trudeau’s re-election chances. After hearing Prince’s chronological narrative, the RCMP investigator pressed her on Ben Chin’s relationship with SNC-Lavalin.

“At one point… did Mr. Chin really indicate exactly what he meant by keeping that relationship positive with SNC-LAVALIN?”

Prince responded:

“I had the impression that he had been talking with somebody pretty senior at the company… he was clearly speaking to people high up in the company.”

The scandal broke in early 2019 when Wilson-Raybould resigned from Cabinet, followed by Treasury Board President Jane Philpott. Trudeau weathered the political storm but suffered the loss of a majority government in the October 2019 federal election.

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Alberta

Punishing Alberta Oil Production: The Divisive Effect of Policies For Carney’s “Decarbonized Oil”

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From Energy Now

By Ron Wallace

The federal government has doubled down on its commitment to “responsibly produced oil and gas”. These terms are apparently carefully crafted to maintain federal policies for Net Zero. These policies include a Canadian emissions cap, tanker bans and a clean electricity mandate.

Following meetings in Saskatoon in early June between Prime Minister Mark Carney and Canadian provincial and territorial leaders, the federal government expressed renewed interest in the completion of new oil pipelines to reduce reliance on oil exports to the USA while providing better access to foreign markets.  However Carney, while suggesting that there is “real potential” for such projects nonetheless qualified that support as being limited to projects that would “decarbonize” Canadian oil, apparently those that would employ carbon capture technologies.  While the meeting did not result in a final list of potential projects, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith said that this approach would constitute a “grand bargain” whereby new pipelines to increase oil exports could help fund decarbonization efforts. But is that true and what are the implications for the Albertan and Canadian economies?


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The federal government has doubled down on its commitment to “responsibly produced oil and gas”. These terms are apparently carefully crafted to maintain federal policies for Net Zero. These policies include a Canadian emissions cap, tanker bans and a clean electricity mandate. Many would consider that Canadians, especially Albertans, should be wary of these largely undefined announcements in which Ottawa proposes solely to determine projects that are “in the national interest.”

The federal government has tabled legislation designed to address these challenges with Bill C-5: An Act to enact the Free Trade and Labour Mobility Act and the Building Canada Act (the One Canadian Economy Act).  Rather than replacing controversial, and challenged, legislation like the Impact Assessment Act, the Carney government proposes to add more legislation designed to accelerate and streamline regulatory approvals for energy and infrastructure projects. However, only those projects that Ottawa designates as being in the national interest would be approved. While clearer, shorter regulatory timelines and the restoration of the Major Projects Office are also proposed, Bill C-5 is to be superimposed over a crippling regulatory base.

It remains to be seen if this attempt will restore a much-diminished Canadian Can-Do spirit for economic development by encouraging much-needed, indeed essential interprovincial teamwork across shared jurisdictions.  While the Act’s proposed single approval process could provide for expedited review timelines, a complex web of regulatory processes will remain in place requiring much enhanced interagency and interprovincial coordination. Given Canada’s much-diminished record for regulatory and policy clarity will this legislation be enough to persuade the corporate and international capital community to consider Canada as a prime investment destination?

As with all complex matters the devil always lurks in the details. Notably, these federal initiatives arrive at a time when the Carney government is facing ever-more pressing geopolitical, energy security and economic concerns.  The Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development predicts that Canada’s economy will grow by a dismal one per cent in 2025 and 1.1 per cent in 2026 – this at a time when the global economy is predicted to grow by 2.9 per cent.

It should come as no surprise that Carney’s recent musing about the “real potential” for decarbonized oil pipelines have sparked debate. The undefined term “decarbonized”, is clearly aimed directly at western Canadian oil production as part of Ottawa’s broader strategy to achieve national emissions commitments using costly carbon capture and storage (CCS) projects whose economic viability at scale has been questioned. What might this mean for western Canadian oil producers?

The Alberta Oil sands presently account for about 58% of Canada’s total oil output. Data from December 2023 show Alberta producing a record 4.53 million barrels per day (MMb/d) as major oil export pipelines including Trans Mountain, Keystone and the Enbridge Mainline operate at high levels of capacity.  Meanwhile, in 2023 eastern Canada imported on average about 490,000 barrels of crude oil per day (bpd) at a cost estimated at CAD $19.5 billion.  These seaborne shipments to major refineries (like New Brunswick’s Irving Refinery in Saint John) rely on imported oil by tanker with crude oil deliveries to New Brunswick averaging around 263,000 barrels per day.  In 2023 the estimated total cost to Canada for imported crude oil was $19.5 billion with oil imports arriving from the United States (72.4%), Nigeria (12.9%), and Saudi Arabia (10.7%).  Since 1988, marine terminals along the St. Lawrence have seen imports of foreign oil valued at more than $228 billion while the Irving Oil refinery imported $136 billion from 1988 to 2020.

What are the policy and cost implication of Carney’s call for the “decarbonization” of western Canadian produced, oil?  It implies that western Canadian “decarbonized” oil would have to be produced and transported to competitive world markets under a material regulatory and financial burden.  Meanwhile, eastern Canadian refiners would be allowed to import oil from the USA and offshore jurisdictions free from any comparable regulatory burdens. This policy would penalize, and makes less competitive, Canadian producers while rewarding offshore sources. A federal regulatory requirement to decarbonize western Canadian crude oil production without imposing similar restrictions on imported oil would render the One Canadian Economy Act moot and create two market realities in Canada – one that favours imports and that discourages, or at very least threatens the competitiveness of, Canadian oil export production.


Ron Wallace is a former Member of the National Energy Board.

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Fraser Institute

Long waits for health care hit Canadians in their pocketbooks

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From the Fraser Institute

By Mackenzie Moir

Canadians continue to endure long wait times for health care. And while waiting for care can obviously be detrimental to your health and wellbeing, it can also hurt your pocketbook.

In 2024, the latest year of available data, the median wait—from referral by a family doctor to treatment by a specialist—was 30 weeks (including 15 weeks waiting for treatment after seeing a specialist). And last year, an estimated 1.5 million Canadians were waiting for care.

It’s no wonder Canadians are frustrated with the current state of health care.

Again, long waits for care adversely impact patients in many different ways including physical pain, psychological distress and worsened treatment outcomes as lengthy waits can make the treatment of some problems more difficult. There’s also a less-talked about consequence—the impact of health-care waits on the ability of patients to participate in day-to-day life, work and earn a living.

According to a recent study published by the Fraser Institute, wait times for non-emergency surgery cost Canadian patients $5.2 billion in lost wages in 2024. That’s about $3,300 for each of the 1.5 million patients waiting for care. Crucially, this estimate only considers time at work. After also accounting for free time outside of work, the cost increases to $15.9 billion or more than $10,200 per person.

Of course, some advocates of the health-care status quo argue that long waits for care remain a necessary trade-off to ensure all Canadians receive universal health-care coverage. But the experience of many high-income countries with universal health care shows the opposite.

Despite Canada ranking among the highest spenders (4th of 31 countries) on health care (as a percentage of its economy) among other developed countries with universal health care, we consistently rank among the bottom for the number of doctors, hospital beds, MRIs and CT scanners. Canada also has one of the worst records on access to timely health care.

So what do these other countries do differently than Canada? In short, they embrace the private sector as a partner in providing universal care.

Australia, for instance, spends less on health care (again, as a percentage of its economy) than Canada, yet the percentage of patients in Australia (33.1 per cent) who report waiting more than two months for non-emergency surgery was much higher in Canada (58.3 per cent). Unlike in Canada, Australian patients can choose to receive non-emergency surgery in either a private or public hospital. In 2021/22, 58.6 per cent of non-emergency surgeries in Australia were performed in private hospitals.

But we don’t need to look abroad for evidence that the private sector can help reduce wait times by delivering publicly-funded care. From 2010 to 2014, the Saskatchewan government, among other policies, contracted out publicly-funded surgeries to private clinics and lowered the province’s median wait time from one of the longest in the country (26.5 weeks in 2010) to one of the shortest (14.2 weeks in 2014). The initiative also reduced the average cost of procedures by 26 per cent.

Canadians are waiting longer than ever for health care, and the economic costs of these waits have never been higher. Until policymakers have the courage to enact genuine reform, based in part on more successful universal health-care systems, this status quo will continue to cost Canadian patients.

Mackenzie Moir

Senior Policy Analyst, Fraser Institute
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